The ‘Armageddon Scenario’ Worrying The Future Fund CIO

Mr Samild shared his thoughts on the bond market – which underpins the returns of other assets – ahead of his appearance at Friday’s Sohn Hearts & Minds charity conference at the Sydney Opera House.

Jonathan Shapiro

The ‘Armageddon Scenario’ Worrying The Future Fund CIO

November 16, 2023
Mr Samild shared his thoughts on the bond market – which underpins the returns of other assets – ahead of his appearance at Friday’s Sohn Hearts & Minds charity conference at the Sydney Opera House.
Read Transcript

The Future Fund, Australia’s $200 billion sovereign wealth fund, has been sounding the alarm on the developed world’s rising levels of debt, the prospect of higher inflation, and the risks in the bond market for longer than most.

But there are some early signs that we may be entering the next phase of bond market risk – where the faith in the United States’ ability to get its budget under control is lost and its already depleted financing base goes on strike.‍

“That’s an Armageddon scenario where everyone gets very worried,” The Future Fund’s chief investment officer Ben Samild told The Australian Financial Review.

The Future Fund’s Ben Samild warns of greater volatility in bond rates. Picture: Eamon Gallagher

Mr Samild shared his thoughts on the bond market – which underpins the returns of other assets – ahead of his appearance at Friday’s Sohn Hearts & Minds charity conference at the Sydney Opera House.‍

Those worries were evident last week after a weak auction of 30-year US government bonds triggered a spike in US bond rates. On Friday, Moody’s cut its outlook on the US Aaa credit rating. This week, it was a different story after lower inflation data triggered a sharp rally in bonds.

 But bond bulls and bears now agree that the market has changed.

Traders had for years ignored the size of the US financing task and global investor capacity. But the US Treasury’s Quarterly Financing Announcements have now become an important data point, that can swing bond and equity markets.

“We haven’t seen 15 to 20 basis point moves in the most important market in the world, in a session, for many years,” Mr Samild said.

 

Return of the term

The US fiscal position, as measured by debt to GDP was “not particularly dire” but it was growing and there was little room to cut spending or lift taxes if the market does lose faith, he said.

While Mr Samild said a dour scenario in which the US “loses the curve” and yields shoot higher was by no means a base case for the Future Fund, it had to be “somewhat conscious of the risk of this” when building the portfolio.

What is more likely is that bond markets return to a more normal state that existed before the years of zero or even negative rates. Typically, buyers of long-term government bonds demand a higher return for the risk that inflation, and interest rates, could be higher than expected.

That additional return is known as the term premium. The decade long period of unconventional monetary policy was designed to crush it to zero to lower borrowing costs and steer capital into risky assets.

The absent term premium is now set to creep back into the bond market. Mr Samild said there were two main reasons why investors would demand extra compensation to buy government bonds.

The first is that he expects more volatility – and more volatility means more risk, and therefore more compensation in the form of a higher return.

The second reason is that US treasury bonds, which sit at the centre of the financial system, may no longer be the go-to investment in times of crisis, if that crisis is caused by supply and demand issues in the bond market.

“There is an unvirtuous circle, so the incentive to hold these assets goes away,” Mr Samild said. “Bonds have to compete on price and on return with every other asset.”

One of the reasons we can expect more volatility in the US bond market is because the buyer base of treasuries was shifting from strong hands to weaker ones, he noted.

The US bond market has traditionally relied on heavily foreign buyers, but they’re turning away for a number of reasons.

The seizure of Russia’s holding of US bonds has made foreign reserve managers with surpluses eager to diversify into gold and other assets.

Japan is still a buyer, but its domestic bonds are more attractive while its huge life insurance system’s demand is falling as they are paying out policies. The same goes for Taiwan, which has a gigantic life insurance industry.

 

World of pain

The US banks are in a world of pain because they bought too many bonds at the top of the market. And of course quantitative easing is turning into quantitative tightening as central banks shift from buyers to sellers of bonds. That leaves hedge funds running highly leveraged arbitrage trades as the marginal financiers of the deficit.

“As it goes into weaker and weaker hands, you just should expect to see more volatility,” said Mr Samild.

There are fundamental reasons why bond yields are likely to remain elevated, the CIO explained. With a wave of public and private sector spending looming, the possible productivity benefits and tighter labour markets, the world could “sustain quite a high real rate”.

But how high can bond rates go? A rule of thumb is that the long-term bond rate should reflect real GDP growth, the inflation rate and a term premium on top of that.

If inflation is around 3 to 3.5 per cent, real GDP is around 2 to 2.5 per cent and the market demands a term premium, a 10-year bond rate of between 6 per cent and 7 per cent is possible “without being crazy”.

“That is extremely different to what we’ve gotten used to over the last 15 years,” Mr Samild said.

Ben Samild will speak at Sohn Hearts & Minds at the Sydney Opera House on November 17. The Australian Financial Review is a media partner.

This article was originally posted by The Australian Financial Review here.

Licensed by Copyright Agency. You must not copy this work without permission.

The Future Fund, Australia’s $200 billion sovereign wealth fund, has been sounding the alarm on the developed world’s rising levels of debt, the prospect of higher inflation, and the risks in the bond market for longer than most.

But there are some early signs that we may be entering the next phase of bond market risk – where the faith in the United States’ ability to get its budget under control is lost and its already depleted financing base goes on strike.‍

“That’s an Armageddon scenario where everyone gets very worried,” The Future Fund’s chief investment officer Ben Samild told The Australian Financial Review.

The Future Fund’s Ben Samild warns of greater volatility in bond rates. Picture: Eamon Gallagher

Mr Samild shared his thoughts on the bond market – which underpins the returns of other assets – ahead of his appearance at Friday’s Sohn Hearts & Minds charity conference at the Sydney Opera House.‍

Those worries were evident last week after a weak auction of 30-year US government bonds triggered a spike in US bond rates. On Friday, Moody’s cut its outlook on the US Aaa credit rating. This week, it was a different story after lower inflation data triggered a sharp rally in bonds.

 But bond bulls and bears now agree that the market has changed.

Traders had for years ignored the size of the US financing task and global investor capacity. But the US Treasury’s Quarterly Financing Announcements have now become an important data point, that can swing bond and equity markets.

“We haven’t seen 15 to 20 basis point moves in the most important market in the world, in a session, for many years,” Mr Samild said.

 

Return of the term

The US fiscal position, as measured by debt to GDP was “not particularly dire” but it was growing and there was little room to cut spending or lift taxes if the market does lose faith, he said.

While Mr Samild said a dour scenario in which the US “loses the curve” and yields shoot higher was by no means a base case for the Future Fund, it had to be “somewhat conscious of the risk of this” when building the portfolio.

What is more likely is that bond markets return to a more normal state that existed before the years of zero or even negative rates. Typically, buyers of long-term government bonds demand a higher return for the risk that inflation, and interest rates, could be higher than expected.

That additional return is known as the term premium. The decade long period of unconventional monetary policy was designed to crush it to zero to lower borrowing costs and steer capital into risky assets.

The absent term premium is now set to creep back into the bond market. Mr Samild said there were two main reasons why investors would demand extra compensation to buy government bonds.

The first is that he expects more volatility – and more volatility means more risk, and therefore more compensation in the form of a higher return.

The second reason is that US treasury bonds, which sit at the centre of the financial system, may no longer be the go-to investment in times of crisis, if that crisis is caused by supply and demand issues in the bond market.

“There is an unvirtuous circle, so the incentive to hold these assets goes away,” Mr Samild said. “Bonds have to compete on price and on return with every other asset.”

One of the reasons we can expect more volatility in the US bond market is because the buyer base of treasuries was shifting from strong hands to weaker ones, he noted.

The US bond market has traditionally relied on heavily foreign buyers, but they’re turning away for a number of reasons.

The seizure of Russia’s holding of US bonds has made foreign reserve managers with surpluses eager to diversify into gold and other assets.

Japan is still a buyer, but its domestic bonds are more attractive while its huge life insurance system’s demand is falling as they are paying out policies. The same goes for Taiwan, which has a gigantic life insurance industry.

 

World of pain

The US banks are in a world of pain because they bought too many bonds at the top of the market. And of course quantitative easing is turning into quantitative tightening as central banks shift from buyers to sellers of bonds. That leaves hedge funds running highly leveraged arbitrage trades as the marginal financiers of the deficit.

“As it goes into weaker and weaker hands, you just should expect to see more volatility,” said Mr Samild.

There are fundamental reasons why bond yields are likely to remain elevated, the CIO explained. With a wave of public and private sector spending looming, the possible productivity benefits and tighter labour markets, the world could “sustain quite a high real rate”.

But how high can bond rates go? A rule of thumb is that the long-term bond rate should reflect real GDP growth, the inflation rate and a term premium on top of that.

If inflation is around 3 to 3.5 per cent, real GDP is around 2 to 2.5 per cent and the market demands a term premium, a 10-year bond rate of between 6 per cent and 7 per cent is possible “without being crazy”.

“That is extremely different to what we’ve gotten used to over the last 15 years,” Mr Samild said.

Ben Samild will speak at Sohn Hearts & Minds at the Sydney Opera House on November 17. The Australian Financial Review is a media partner.

This article was originally posted by The Australian Financial Review here.

Licensed by Copyright Agency. You must not copy this work without permission.

Disclaimer: This material has been prepared by Australian Financial Review, published on Nov 16, 2023. HM1 is not responsible for the content of linked websites or content prepared by third party. The inclusion of these links and third-party content does not in any way imply any form of endorsement by HM1 of the products or services provided by persons or organisations who are responsible for the linked websites and third-party content. This information is for general information only and does not consider the objectives, financial situation or needs of any person. Before making an investment decision, you should read the relevant disclosure document (if appropriate) and seek professional advice to determine whether the investment and information is suitable for you.

facebook
linkedin
All
Thank you! Your submission has been received!
Oops! Something went wrong while submitting the form.
November 10, 2022

Why this fundie is betting on luxury as recession fears mount

Bob Desmond is Head of Claremont Global and Co-Portfolio Manager. He will present at the Sohn Hearts & Minds Investment Leaders Conference in Tasmania on November 18.

Read More
November 7, 2022

This fundie couldn’t be happier with her portfolio

Joyce Meng is a presenter at this year’s Sohn Hearts & Minds Investment Leaders Conference on November 18, which takes place in Hobart and aims to raise money for medical research.

Read More
November 2, 2022

Equity Mates: Ricky Sandler, Eminence Capital

Founder, CIO and CEO of Eminence Capital Ricky Sandler talks about launching the $5.7bn asset manager, changing market structures and why he's participating in the SH&M conference.

Read More
November 1, 2022

Auscap Asset Management founder sticks to a winning formula

When Auscap Asset Management founder Tim Carleton tips a stock at the Sohn Hearts & Minds conference in Hobart, he doubts it will be a name that shocks investors.

Read More
October 31, 2022

Markets to enter ‘new phase’ with hidden risks lurking, says top stock picker Peter Cooper

One of Australia's most influential fund managers warns that investment markets have entered a “new phase” that is set to test the ­financial system.

Read More
October 31, 2022

Why Peter Cooper can’t wait for the next 30 years on markets

The veteran fund manager says the most uncertain period of his career will deliver huge opportunities – providing his firm can stick to its system.

Read More
October 30, 2022

Why this fundie is betting big on two losing companies

Speaking to the AFR before the SH&M conference, Sandler named global on-demand ride-sharing and food delivery service Uber Technologies among his top picks, alongside real estate marketplace Zillow.

Read More
October 27, 2022

Why this fundie is calling the peak for CBA shares

Jun Bei Liu is the lead Portfolio Manager at Tribeca Alpha Plus Fund and is set to present an investment idea at the Sohn Hearts & Minds Conference in Hobart on November 18.

Read More
October 24, 2022

‘Forget forecasts – focus on quality’, says Claremont Global chief Bob Desmond

Bob Desmond is making his first appearance at the 2022 Sohn Hearts & Minds Conference.

Read More
October 24, 2022

Regal hedge fund manager says resources stocks are still cheap

Regal’s hedge fund focused on the resources space has thumped the market and its top stock picker, Tim Elliott, says resources stocks are still cheap.

Read More
December 10, 2024

Professor Jane Butler: Sparking Hope for Spinal Cord Injuries

In this episode of the Hearts & Minds Podcast, we sit down with Professor Jane Butler to discuss her groundbreaking research into spinal cord injuries.

Read More
impact-podcasts
September 24, 2024

Asian Market Potential with Tom Naughton of Prusik

CIO Charlie Lanchester sits down with Tom Naughton, CIO of Prusik Investment Mgmt. Tom shares his investment philosophy, the opportunities and challenges in Asian markets, and how his 2023 conference stock pick, Swire Pacific (0019.HK), delivered an impressive 30% return.

Read More
investing
September 4, 2024

Building Hearts and Minds with Co-Founders Matthew Grounds and Guy Fowler

In this episode, co-founders Matthew Grounds AM and Guy Fowler OAM discuss their journey in building Hearts & Minds and its philanthropic model that has donated over $70 million to medical research.

Read More
investing
June 25, 2024

Navigating the Resource Sector with Jeremy Bond of Terra Capital

In this episode, we chat with Jeremy Bond, Founder of Terra Capital and HM1 Conference Fund Manager. Tune in for insights into the world of resource investments and the exciting opportunities that lie ahead.

Read More
investing
June 11, 2024

Prof. Nadia Badawi on Cerebral Palsy Breakthroughs and Neonatal Care

Dive deep into the groundbreaking work of Professor Nadia Badawi, an internationally recognised neonatologist and expert in Cerebral Palsy.

Read More
impact-podcasts
May 28, 2024

Investment Insights: Rikki Bannan on Top Picks and Trends

Join us for an engaging episode featuring Rikki Bannan, Portfolio Manager of IFM Investors and HM1 Conference Fund Manager. This episode explores Rikki's career journey, investment strategies, and her 2023 conference stock pick, Telix Pharmaceuticals (ASX.TLX).

Read More
investing
December 6, 2023

Peter Cooper talks building and instilling a culture of humility and excellence

In this episode, our guest is the renowned investor, Peter Cooper, founder and Chief Investment Officer of Cooper Investors (Core Fund Manager). A founding supporter of Hearts and Minds, Peter is a staunch advocate of our model and its philanthropic purpose, actively engaging in every facet of Hearts and Minds.

Read More
investing
November 28, 2023

Jun Bei Liu on her high conviction investment strategy

In this episode, HM1 Chief Investment Officer Charlie Lanchester is joined by Jun Bei Liu. Jun Bei is the Portfolio Manager of Tribeca’s Alpha Plus Fund and since taking over managing the Fund, she has quadrupled AUM.

Read More
investing
November 21, 2023

The world of rare genetic disease research

In this episode, we speak to Associate Professor Gina Ravenscroft. Gina is an Associate Professor in Neurogenetics at the Harry Perkins Institute of Medical Research in Perth. Her research interests are in rare genetic diseases, with a particular focus on neurogenetic diseases in babies and children.

Read More
impact-podcasts
November 14, 2023

Learn what makes a high conviction investment and how to avoid short-term noise

In this episode, our Core Fund Manager Magellan shares how they select top stocks for the HM1 portfolio.

Read More
investing
November 7, 2023

Delve into the world of kids critical care and trauma research

In thie episode, we are joined by Dr. Marino Festa, or Rino for short. He is the Medical Director of NSW Kids ECMO Referral Service and a senior specialist in Paediatric Intensive Care at Children’s Hospital at Westmead.

Read More
impact-podcasts
October 31, 2023

Where Regal's Phil King is searching for opportunities

HM1's CIO, Charlie Lanchester, talks to Phil King of Regal Funds about his passion for stocks, his ongoing search for opportunities, and some of the sectors he’s excited by right now. Phil King of Regal Funds, has been a tremendous supporter of Hearts & Minds since the beginning.

Read More
investing
October 24, 2023

Preventing recurrent miscarriages and birth defects

In this episode, CEO Paul Rayson is joined by renowned biomedical researcher Professor Sally Dunwoodie. Prof. Dunwoodie's groundbreaking work has revolutionised clinical practices and enabled genetic diagnostic tests worldwide. In 2017, her team achieved a double breakthrough with the potential to prevent recurrent miscarriages and various birth defects.

Read More
impact-podcasts
October 17, 2023

Nick Griffin on how he finds global winners

In this episode, CIO Charlie Lanchester chats with Nick Griffin, the founding partner and CIO of Munro Partners, one of HM1's Core Fund Managers. They go over his career to date, reflect on the lessons he’s learned, and trace the decisions that led to him starting Munro.

Read More
investing
October 10, 2023

How A/Prof Matt Call is teaching our body to kill cancer

In this episode, CEO Paul Rayson is joined by WEHI’s Associate Professor Matt Call to talk about his incredible research. Matt’s team teaches and trains the body's own immune cells to target and kill cancer cells.

Read More
impact-podcasts

No results found.

Please try a different search keyword or filter.